D E E P I N T O A R T L I F E WEST

Sunday, June 21, 2009

Fine tuning uncharted territory

I just had a synchronicity seeing the image of a swirling toilet bowl on the TV screen while thinking about Visible's post, Down the cosmic toilet bowl into the fires of hell. Synchronicity noted, we can certainly understand and share his sentiments. Its a crazy world getting crazier. We used to think there would be an end to it, at some point, few realized what a long slough it would turn out to be. Once you get the hang of observing, there is no end to the in-sanity.

For example, Dadnerd recently stated "... The ego wants, it desires, it is all about itself. ... It is an illusion." Thinking about that will direct you to the mystery chapter concerning a branch of medicine known as shrinking. You can see where this leads. It leads me right back to Joe Bageant's Escape from the Zombie Food Court. And more, right into Charles Eisenstein's Gathering of the Tribe who volunteered to solve the problems on Planet Earth. It leads to factual derealization (see Charles Hugh Smith's definition over there in the right column.) and empowers a phony representative self who leads you around on a choke collar. From Freud to green shoots to the Tuskeegee Experiment to the sandwich bagging of sample-sized shampoo, we were stuck in thought cages manipulating our breathing space.

If 911 never happened, how much longer would it have taken to reach an apocalypse, the unveiling? Where would we be now? All of our representative selves would be telling our egos we were missing a few screws. The derealization we experienced would have worked its evil and we'd be hoarders, living behind walls, broken appliances, engine blocks, maybe a school bus or two strewn around the place, swimming pool drained to a fishpond and penniless anyway since the debt meter is still running no matter what we do. No matter what they do. Shotgun marriages just don't work. Nothing works but love. The answer to everything, always, it never fails, does it? Love is all there is. Love is the beginning and the end of everything, you either get it completely or you utterly, spectacularly fail to see it.

On other planets there are love people, I am sure of this. Or maybe the Love Planet is in the Human Realm and we will be among our kind for thirty thousand years.

This program we've been subject to is a conundrum in that it distorts into multiples of fakery as it descends. A millenniums-long mass punking. There is no humor in it. Its too gory. There are no holds barred in the depravity of the program designers. You can actually watch its descent taking place as it accelerates down the charts or up the charts depending on what you're watching. Depression level - high, going higher. Retail sales - low, going lower.

There are only two ways to survive it. Ignore it and trudge onward in spite of it, ignorance is bliss, a limited plan, but available for survival through sheer happenstance. Or, the direct route, move into Plan B immediately. Everybody not ignoring the situation does not have the same Plan B, but we all make adjustments as required to insure our own Plan B's viability.

Last year I wrote we were surviving the brutal winters using only our fireplace for warmth. Despite having deleted my archives documenting why it was we chose this route, its worked out well and taught us the hard work of firewood collection is always going to be a year round activity. If you've never tried it, you wouldn't realize how quickly your stash is depleted. To be any good at at, you'll need fifty to one hundred times the firewood you'd imagine. As we move along with Plan B, what we've learned about wood banking parallels the quantitative need in storable foods. Never mind that clothing is the last on the list. You're going to be getting down and dirty, so threadbare tees and jeans with holes are the fashion of choice, if you have any choice at all. Eventually, your only concern will be surviving the elements.

Most of you reading this might find these words amusing while you are sitting in front of your freestanding, slim, liquid crystal display, feet on desk, cellphone earpiece active, secure in the knowledge the propane delivery truck is pulling into your home's drivway at this very hour. Okay, how long do you think that will last? Your tank probably holds a one month supply. And then what? How is your state doing? Your nation? Your community, you? Did the military industrial complex secure Iraq's vast oil fields?

I'm not going to attempt to convince anyone of anything here. People always have to find out the hard way anyway. That's the worst way to go about survival which we all know is about being prepared. The only edge I have over my species going through the crash is I crashed earlier and have some experience with how it works. First of all, you have to do all of the work by yourself if you ever want anything to work again. Its helpful to retain your sense of humor. And just like the woodpile, in order to work smoothly, it requires more humility than you knew you had. That's not groveling I'm talking about, its gratitude for having the experiences you always knew were most important, experiences that the crazy world of the Illusion denies us until it can no longer be denied.

The crash is actually a paradigm shift. Let me clear up another generally misinterpreted detail, the Illusion is not necessarily the government either, or the educational system, it is much more preponderant that a single entity, it is social mores founded in religious beliefs approved by the government and their educative counterparts, all of which is bullhorned by every media venue every second of every single day and night. The ads are generic images of the system idealized. It was never possible to emulate it in the capacity it was thrust upon the human element. The Illusion is still here, still bullhorning, but bullhorning into an empty choir loft. We hear they won't be able to keep this up more than a month or two, by fall the underground forecast is guaranteeing "bigger and worse" than the bigger and worse we've already seen.

We become inured. I'd almost go over to the other side of ignorance and bliss if I had the money to do it. As it is, having been driven by increments into destitution accompanied by the occasional displacement, I figured out the larger patterns mostly on my own by osmosis. The rest came in leaps and chunks of brilliance from like minded others, none comes from those caught up in the program that don't realize they are in a program. I have much compassion for this group, all of the suffering and confusion awaits them. I've seen some comments around today that spell doom for this crowd, deeply possession-oriented, convinced in their inviolate correctness. You can tell them nothing. They've invested everything, they have their ears locked on the bullhorns. Their actions are unhelpful to everyone else. They prolong the inevitable, worsening the crises by emulating the loudest bullhorns as less effectual, regional bullhorns, always introducing more delusions further inflating the Illusion.

Try not to get caught up in them. They never come right out and say what you are doing is wrong, instead they work behind you making regulations to prevent your success and harp on the negatives in your Plan B. By standing there in front of you in the very image of fascism idealized, your dirty work boots are a shabby representation of your total self in their eyes.

When this happens, muster up that sense of humor in the nonsense of the moment, recall your humility, be compassionate. Be strong. Come this fall, they will likely be singing the blues desperate to know how your survival is possible. You should show them then what real living is all about and be kind about it. That is the biggest lesson I learned along those weary roads, kindness is the key and love is the door.

Rules for getting along in the New World post crash:
1. Accept the reality of what is.
2. Do no harm.
3. Maintain your physical and your mental health.
4. Remove yourself immediately from the potential for damage.
5. Keep your higher self out front and available at all times, eradicate any vestige of a representative self so that all your thoughts, words and deeds are united.
6. Flow with nature.
7. Replace regret with heal, help and repair. Our language is as much at fault for our programming as the program itself.
8. Embrace the fire of transformation with trust and awe.

The rules are in random order and all have the same priority. Staying focused and open minded is important too, but easily twisted since these terms are flexible depending on who uses them.

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Did you notice that you went from the woodchipper to the wood pile--most folks do it the other way around--

It's magic Nina and her wand of destiny waiving--where it stops, nobody knows

Jj

nina said...

Another way to describe the paradigm shift is rising from the ashes.

Dadnerd said...

That's a big pile of wood.

Your latest post has to be digested slowly, and re-read. I like the way this blog is flowing, it's one long flowing river of a discussion. Maybe it sprang from a cold spring somewhere, maybe it has no end, but I like the current.

Could someone kindly link me to Su's blog, for some reason I can't find a way to her place?

Jacob Gittes said...

wow... great one.
Had a wonderful occurrence on Saturday night. A friend revealed himself to be in possession not just of the wisdom to know what's going down, but also resources and will. A great discussion was had, and conclusions worked out, and a way forward imagined. Synchronicity, and hope. Hope based on not being completely alone, and the joy of companionship in knowledge and determination.

Thanks for helping us all along, Nina. And your woodpile experience just made me realize that we've got some work to do here up in the northcountry.

nina said...

Dadnerd, on my bloglist, Su is easyidler.

nina said...

Hi everyone, that amount of wood has been added to since the photo. Its less than one month's worth, more like two or three weeks. Pine is least desirable as it burn too quickly. Old Oak is best, when it is unwanted and needs to be adopted. Otherwise, the stumps are part of the ecosystem and to be left in nature.

Anonymous said...

We don't have enough for the winter if we had to rely on it totally but I keep a very close eye out in the woods for dead wood standing--it will be there when we need it--if we need it--

If we had to rely on just the garden, we would have a long way to go too--I'm also going to plant stuff that deer like so they enjoy coming by--almost time to get picking the blackberries and raspberries in, and along the woods before the dder get them--you have to pick a little earlier than one would like but when they are ripe, the deer will get them all in a night--damn poison ivy to contend with though---lot's of soap on the clothes in the washer--

Like dadnerd said, there is so much more to digest in what you are writing Nina--pretty sure if you're like me, there is stuff in there that you don't know about yet--you are on a roll and we all seems to be as well--

More later--

Jj

chickory said...

that woodpile is a beautiful photograph and i suspect a future watercolor. i followed you here from Orlov and spent my free hours over the weekend reading your posts and following your hyperlinks. stellar reading experience. thank you.

when i went to plan B i didnt know all the little beauties that would come with it. i bet your arms look great from chopping wood - good and strong. im stronger than ive ever been now that my days are mostly spent doing actual physical labor outside. i used to be an illustrator. sitting on my ass at a drawing table all day. i still make art but its not my business now. my business is my garden, my chicks and my sanity. when i went to plan B the low grade constant anxiety i was feeling went away. of course the docs suggested medication - well if you need to medicate yourself to endure your life then your life needs to change!

even if somebody were to convince me that everything would return to *whatever it is that was* nothing would change for me. you learned to live without heat. Im learning the virtue of a summer without air conditioning. i'll get an opportunity to see how many other things i can live without. im getting lighter and learning how little i need.

last thing - your painting of the little woodpeckers? one is falling -he is rather stiff in his fall - and its an effective commentary on the situation we find ourselves in somehow. i really like that painting.

Anonymous said...

1. Do no harm
2. Don't allow someone to harm you
3. Live with gratitude
4. Love with gratitude
5. It's all about relationships
6. You don't have to do anything
7. Do it because you want to do it

Who has 8, 9 and 10?

Jj

nina said...

I'll be back tonight, but just want to greet chickory. Of course you would have known of Milton Glaser. Heh, its great to have you comment here. Welcome.

Dadnerd said...

Jj:

You mentioned it already, but...

Love.

Do what you will, but love, and all other things will fall into place.

I don't mean sentimental love or lust. Those are fine :-)

But I mean a state where "you" are basically in the background. In that state of awareness or being, "you" are not all that important.

Yes, you have to feed yourself,etc...but love may be a state where, basically you are not there. Does that make sense?

When all your self centered occupations are put in the background, then you see everything, the birds the mountains, the...everything.

So I would add that to the list, or supplant them all with that one thing.

Dadnerd said...

just finished, Escape from the Zombie Food Court

I must recommend it to everyone.

Thanks for linking that Nina.

nina said...

I stand corrected by the Logs President that the woodpile at time of photo is around two months worth. This is good information, its not as labor intensive as I'd made out, although a common laborer's view might be different.
But it is addictive.

su said...

Embrace the fire of transformation with trust and awe.

nina said...

Dadnerd, I am so glad you got into it. I did too. The whole thing is right on.

Dadnerd said...

Nina:

I'm glad to have an update on the logs thing. My skeptical son who happens to be living with me at the moment, and networked right next to me, thought the pile was a bit big for three weeks worth, hehe.

I assured him that Nina was one of the enlightened people on the planet and if she said three weeks worth,,,well she must be smothered in snow most of the year hehe. Oh my.

Anyway he will be glad to know of the update, and your reputation will be recovered.

On a more serious note, yeah that link was right on, I hope everyone takes the time to read it.

I hesitate to send it out on my email address to the "common folk" but, what the hell, I have no common sense!

nina said...

chickory, Thank you. An Acorn Woodpeckers red cap set forward is the male, the cap set back exposing the forehead is the female. The male is the upright one.
Is your artwork on line somewhere you could post a link for us? Some of us have not been shy about showing our work. cough cough.

I just want to see what you were doing.

nina said...

Thanks Dadnerd. Vindication feels so good.
Yes, I had the same urge, to email it to my friends and family and waited until that urge was examined in every possible manner and then did nothing.

nina said...

Su thinks her rule wasn't acknowledged, but it was. Su, you are really good at this.

Dadnerd said...

I have the, Escape from the Zombie Food Court, fresh on my mind, and I run out to the store down the street. It's about 2 am. I encounter main stream America, live and fresh.

I pull up to the parking lot and there is this girl on a cell phone. She asks me, sir, could you drive me to such and such a place? And I'm like, WHAT?

She's cute, blond hair blue eyes, and I'm tall and I'm looking at her level, so she doesn't seem young. And she appears to be intelligent.

So I say, did you call your mother? She says, she isn't answering the phone. Did you call your dad? He's out of the picture. My boyfriend dropped me off and I need a way to get home!

She said she was 14.

I'm dragging in the last discussion we had on your previous post.

My paternal instincts are at the forefront and I'm blown away that this kid is out this late asking an old fart for a ride home, and I told her so.

Okay I'm only 56, is that old? I used to look ten years younger than I was, but I think those days are over.

I scolded her, why on earth are you asking a stranger to give you a ride home?!

Meantime an other fellow came out and apparently had the same encounter with her, so now we are both questioning her on the matter. I could tell the guy was cool. And some people from the store came out and questioned her too. She must have been there a while.

I said, there is no way I can even imagine helping you here. I could actually get arrested for this. Once again I scolded her for even asking a stranger to give her a ride.

The younger guy was cool, and you know sometimes you can read people, maybe it's false, but most often it's true. So he was going the same way and he volunteered to take her. She hugged me and said she appreciated the whole thing. And it was sweet, and I hope she made it okay.

What a sad commentary on American life.


Whats the point of this narrative?

Two things. Basic family life is in the toilet. Second. Mature people will always respond with maturity even if those around them are lacking in that quality. And young people have no idea of things. Why does this girl even have a boyfriend at 14?

I'm getting old I reckon.

Sorry to ramble, it's a synchronicity thing and it was on my mind.

su said...

It's not a rule it's an urging.
Don't do rules.
Except in backgammon.

Anonymous said...

Born into Nixon, I was raised in hell
A welfare child where the teamsters dwelled
The last one born, the first one to run
My town was blind from the refinery sun

My generation is zero
I never made it as a working class hero

21st century breakdown
I once was lost but never was found.
I think I'm losing what's left of my mind
To the 20th century deadline

I was made of poison and blood
Condemnation is what I understood
Video games of the tower's fall
Homeland security could kill us all

My generation is zero
I never made it as a working class hero

21st century breakdown
I once was lost but never was found.
I think I'm losing what's left of my mind
To the 20th century deadline

We are the class of thirteen
Born in the era of humility
We are the desperate and in the decline
Raised by the bastards of 1969

My name is 'no-one', the long lost son
Born on the 4th of July
Raised in the era of heroes and cons
Thaat left me for dead or alive
*
There is a war that's inside my head
That questions the results and lies
I'm breaking my back till I'm better off dead
We are not payed enough to survive

I am a nation
a worker of pride
My debt to the status quo
The scars on my hands and a means to an end
It's all that I have to show

I'm taking a loan on my sanity
For the redemption of my soul
well I am exempt from this tragedy
And the 21st century fall

I praise liberty, the freedom to obey
It's a song that strangles me
Well don't cross the line

Oh, dream, American dream
I can't even sleep
from rainstorms till dawn
Oh, bleed, America bleed
Believe what you read
from heroes and cons*

Green Day

Jj

Anonymous said...

dadnerd, and all: what you speak of is happening to me more and more these days--I walk around and, well, I'll do my best to describe it--
Other people seem to be colored shadows--they are there, but not for me so much---moving cardboard cutouts--like one of those fake store fronts (facade?)in an old western town with the wood up front--and the back a tent-I wouldn't be surprised to see them head on, turn, and see nothing--there are some that I converse with, others I'll just smile at--I get a smile back most times--someone took the time to notice them and greet them and they responded in kind--a little moment of light--
I feel more in tune with that which is not human these days--I wouldn't be surprised if I just turned to vapor and went along with the wind and sun one of these times--and that would be ok--

We do live in the land of latchkey kids--there are good parents/people out there but there are a lot who are on the dole, disability, whatever--how does a kid learn? We've talked to our guys about everything and although it isn't sticking now for the most part, it's there and they will understand more as they go along--as we all do--

I think you made the right call not driving the 14 year old--was the boyfriend across the way waiting for her to yell rape the minute you drove off with her? Surely must have crossed your mind--I guess we take them as they come and just do the best we can--She isn't the only one out there like that--so many alcoholic parents, parents taking all kinds of anti-depressants--I don't do any of it because life requires a clear head--I have people I am responsible for, because I choose to be ,and I need to be at my best should something happen--not paranoid, just the way I am--

There will be more scams, home invasions--kid crooks who get talked into something and get in way over their heads to fast too soon---they are losing any hope they had that maybe life would turn out OK for them--adults feeling the same way and that raises anger which will have it's outlets---unfortunately--

Jj

Zoner said...

Is there maybe a curve to ignorance that hopefully turns into something more useful once one has maybe seen through the illusion for a bit? Tuning out the MSM for a few years now has offered a great deal of peace, but it doesn't seem like a putting-the-head-in-the-sand type of thing. Hey, I KNOW the "system" as we have come to see it is doomed and determined to try and keep us in the dark on the way down, so we don't get together and create something that is actually viable from the wreckage. I no longer need to (or am I able to) spend half a day on WRH to realize there is some intensely grotesque stuff going down out there. Heck, a quick read of a Smoking Mirrors post and a link click or 2 are all I need anymore. Sends me for my Blankie every time (in my case usually a loud instrument). On the odd occasion that I look at a television for a few minutes(usually with little or no sound as it only happens in public or at someone else's home), what I see is so far from what I now know is real-life that it is ALL absurd theatre anymore.

But now, a Plan Z. I thought it would be a quick jump - find a cool spot and just LEAP. This is not something to be taken on haphazardly, and some measure of common sense has intervened, but that is the most appealing path for me still. F it, lets sell everything and go, and start learning how to take care of ourselves (or perish trying?). Just completely bug out and stop playing this silly game. But, I am making these choices for 3 other souls (2 of them children, who will adapt I'm sure) and having a degree of uncertainty about my abilities and health makes it seem a profoundly selfish position to hold.

Besides, it gets really, really cold here, and the woods surrounding me wouldn't last a winter with all the McMansions to heat. In a big crash scenario, this is NOT the place to get all dirty and start wearing out my jeans!

I love the rules, Nina, and the humor has been the thing that sustains along with the abundance of love surrounding me. While in the process of going bankrupt and watching all the "stuff" float away, I have never felt richer or more blessed. Is there a finishing school I can attend to fast-track my way to destitute, and thus begin to rise from the ashes, or is that in the plan for all of us at the end of summer?

This is where it is at for me. You said;

"The rest came in leaps and chunks of brilliance from like minded others,"

I have said it before and now again; I can't see doing this alone, and hope that a community will present itself when the time is right and I fully focus my intention in that direction. This is the closest I can come for now, with the occasional meet-up in real life or a further networking push in the neighborhood.

By the way, I never thanked you for the beer, Publius. It was very nice meeting you and your young 'un.

Your compassion for the clueless or otherwise asleep speaks volumes about where your heart lies, Nina. Love is truly what it is all about, and I thank you for sharing it with us.

Man, I hate being punked or lied to. I'm glad this is a "lies and BS free zone"

Love to all,

Z

chickory said...

i just came from reading escape from the zombie food court. its breathtaking in scope, heartbreaking in its correctness. it reminds me theres still a lot of work i have ahead to free my spirit.

i wish everyone would read it and discover some of the strategies for getting out from under the dark sith overlords running this joint. like service or spending a summer watching corn grow. let me tell you, should anyone currently in the debt slave matrix ever decide to do just that, the cacophony "get off your ass, loser" would be deafening. i know this from personal experience.

nina, you can see my art here thank you so much for the warm welcome. im not nearly as far along on this journey as you and your readers, but i know it was good fortune that i followed you home.

greetings to all -great commentary and conversation here. thank you, Jj, for your visit.

Zoner said...

chickory, your work is breathtaking. I strongly encourage all of you to stop over at the link above and see more examples of brilliance in our midst.

Beautiful work!

Z

nina said...

chickory, Thank you! I'm going to link to your portfolio on the Gallery page if that's okay. Perhaps we have a hero in common, Henri Rousseau? Really, lucious, breathable, reverent works you've got there.
I understand and empathize with why we can't sit through life on our bums doing these thing into infinity and how it shuts out all the rest while we solve color and form and stare into space working it all out. Our bodies were designed to move, to get out there and roll around in it all.
I continually make corrections to the total experience, every day is new, lately with the help of the dogs, nothing is static. Whatever seemed so important to be doing stops when they want their walkings and off we go into the peaks of wonderland. Now there is a beautiful balance, early to rise, chores, paint, explore, meal preparation, web and sleep. Never again the the charettes, the creepy freakies, the endless wants, the smothering hoardes, the trumpets and sirens of the toxic mainstream.
You'd probably like Trout Clan Campfire and Comrade Simba too, have a glance. Bring along pictures of the chicks.

Jacob Gittes said...

I love Henri Rousseau! I'll check out Chickory's work later this afternoon.
Zoner, we ought to get together again soon. I have new ideas and opportunities...

Had a personal life setback today. I found out my wife had been to a clinic to be assessed for microdermabrasion therapy... there will be five treatments at almost $100 a pop. I guess I wasn't supportive enough, and at some point, the conversation turned extremely ugly. I know this is partly my doing, my responsibility... I could just let it all go, let it ride. It seems that whenever I think I'm getting ahead enough to purchase some item I wish to acquire as part of my preparations, some new expense materializes, like in the Star Trek transporter. It's really some kind of lesson that someone/thing wants me to learn, that I'm not quite learning yet.

I need to embrace the fact that money is an illusion, anyway- the things I need to prepare might just as likely be found in a junk heap or along the road, like the electronic keyboard or electric motors I found last month.

If I'm going to stay married to the woman I'm married to, then I just need to allow her the freedom to discover the truth on her own, and be as supportive as possible. I've pretty much decided that I need to be there for my son... some new initiatives have come to me recently from friends that make me much more hopeful about the future. I guess the cosmetic procedure controversy is really pretty minor. Sorry to vent this. It feels embarrassing and somehow shameful to have had this experience, but I believe this feeling is not my own, but something imposed from without. That is, an argument or controversy in a marriage about the expense of cosmetic procedures and the wisdom or necessity of undergoing such treatments is actually to be expected in the USA, even as the economic engine sputters. It is my reaction that was inept. My savings could evaporate tomorrow - then what use would the argument have been?

Dadnerd said...

Publius:

That's a tough situation. We are all saturated with the image of what consists of beauty. Turn on the TV or open a magazine. Wait, you don't have to open the magazine, just glance at the covers!

But we do judge people by their looks, so, how to function, living in this fish bowl?

Personally I like a few flaws. When I see a "perfect" face I get bored right away. Silly me.

If your wife leave it at that, then probably it's okay, but if she goes down the road of Michael Jackson...

Chickory:

Awesome paintings, thanks for sharing that. Read you other stuff too. I used to think northern Georgia was the best kept secret in the country. Oh can you explain the naked chick on the bird?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

Jacob Gittes said...

Breakdown:
I avoided it for most of the day, but couldn't help indulging my (morbid) curiosity to see the awful video clip of the 26 year old philosophy student and young woman Neda dying in the streets of Tehran.

Our government was complicit in keeping the brutal regime of the Shah in power for decades, and we blundered in our handling of the new revolutionary regime back in 1979, leading to 30 years of cold war with Iran.

Are we not complicit in the atmosphere of distrust and paranoia that led to this young woman's death?

Regardless, the image is so brutal and sad that I'm sitting here at work, in my cubicle, with tears in my eyes. I just want to GET OUT. I want to be a non-participant in whatever it is that just can't seem to stop killing, maiming, torturing,exploiting. It's not just the USA, of course. Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Rwanda, the Balkans... on and on. Don't people ever just want to get off the bus? Where is it really going anyway, even if a revolution or movement succeeds? I think we need less ambition, fewer "movements," less of everything other than, as has been pointed out so much here recently, love.
Love... and non-participation in anything that doesn't add value to lives, biosystems, communities, and beauty.
The economy should be stripped of its reified status as a modern god, as should governments and corporations.
This game must end.

Jacob Gittes said...

Also, I just thought of my friend from a nation next door who has pretty hard evidence that the US was involved in trying to bomb his uncles car : a bomb appeared in his car while it was stopped at a US military checkpoint, when he was not allowed to see his vehicle. It was only by grace that he discovered it in the trunk before it went off.

We do not know who shot this young woman... how do we know it was not an agent or operative of another nation? The choice of the woman as a victim is suspicious: why would the Iranian government or their agents want to target a person who was not even participating in the protests? That does not make sense... it does not make sense from the perspective of deterrence.

Something smells here. Part of the smell is the smell of the death of innocents. The killing of innocents has been part of the modus operandi of US and Western intelligence operatives in the Middle East for centuries: read about Winston Churchill's love of the machine gun as a way of "pacifying" tribal peoples, along with his love of bombing them with the newfangled airplane.

Zoner said...

Publius, it has been our official policy to create regime change in Iran, as evidenced by the appropriation of funds to "support" opposition factions within that country and basically declaring we would slip in and stir things up behind the scenes. Same story for decades there, and what you are being shown is, indeed, bought and paid for by the sweat of your labor. Chaos and unrest is exactly what is ought here, and the means are the same as the ones that that led your friend's uncle's car to be rigged to explode - false-flag operatives. He would have been called a suicide bomber and a terrorist had the true terrorists been successful.

No longer paying taxes is a tangible step in not supporting the system. Few who maintain any connection to the economic wage-slave arrangement dare to simply opt out of doing so for fear of consequences, and the only other alternative is to be so dirt poor that you no longer owe anything or are wort pursuing. Become less visible to the all-seeing eye.

I won't mention being filthy rich and being able to APPEAR destitute for the benefit of low taxes. I don't think that applies to many of us here.

I intend to opt for the latter. In our brief meeting, you seemed to have a pretty clear picture of what living outside of this scheme might look like and even where you might find yourself at home.

I don't think it is so very far from where you are now, but it can seem completely unreachable at times, no?

Keep striving, and don't despair. And let me know if I can be of assistance.

Z

chickory said...

nina: thanks for looking! rousseau is very instructive at this time. a friend of mine has a daughter who would like to attend the art institute in chicago. 30K a year tuition. for art! i said heres an art school that costs 29,900.00 less. have your daughter buy a membership to a museum, a pad of paper and some drawing tools and tell her go there every day and start drawing. the bonus is she wont have the influence of some instructor killing off her natural style and she wont start life in debt with a virtually worthless degree. Nobody has ever asked to see my credentials.

i tried, as i often have, to explain how the new america is going to be but that makes me a doomer and "negative". anyway, off to chicago she goes.

rousseau is the godfather of shaggin your own trail. to achieve in spite of and in the face of the "salon" or university or A list gallery.

i think i did visit trout clan -theres an attack duck over there i believe...but i will definitely visit your readers' blogs. thanks for linking.

dadnerd: i believe i have Chagall to blame for the interspecies love affair depicted with the nekkid girl on her mockingbird..i am reminded of a wedding couple riding the wild village rooster

yes, north georgia is a mystical place of deliverance mythology, appalachian grit, smokey mountains, rainforests and the universal destroyer Wal-Mart. it is a good secret, less so that the ATL is 100 miles south. we'll have to block off 515 when TSHTF. ;-)
that makes me a typical ex-pat, doesnt it? "shut the gates now that i got my grubsteak" hahahaha

zoner: i read your page on sunday. i think you arrived at the right conclusion, despite a boutique disease, dont be afraid! its hard to do, easy to say, but like you said push forward doing the best you can in spite of the hardships. before long that will be everyones game plan. hopefully.


thanks to all who commented on my work; i really appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

Let's not forget the hundreds of billions that are brought into this country (for black ops) in the form of heroin and cocaine--I've said it before--they are at rock (pun intended) bottom prices--it's everywhere and dirt cheap just for the kiddies--so glad that Obama signed the tobacco bill that will change the "colorful ads" that entice kids to smoke--meanwhile the band plays on--
Of course, that you can grow pot, and make meth here is why all the raids are on those folks--gotta keep the competition minimized--

Chickory:be sure to have the chainsaw at the ready--all of you should--works wonders when cutting large trees that just happen to fall on the road during martial law--just be sure that there are banks on either side---

Send lawyers , guns and money.......

Just a reminder to free your mind by going to Nina's "all art, all the time" and just let it wash over you--comment if you are led to--

Jj

Anonymous said...

Wow, got back from a trip for Padre's day & just read 'Fine Turning' and the Zombie food court! I don't need to comment anymore b/c y'all have said it all!
I've been thinking the war with Iran was imminent for the past three years, just have to quit counting the days and living in dread and get on with Plan B. Down here we're already canning tomatoes and the peaches and figs are just starting to ripen.

nina said...

Publius: ...I believe this feeling is not my own, but something imposed from without...

Relationships make sense, all and any. But where does it say that relationships must be legally sanctioned? I see this as an inheritance from the Mother Country of fiefdoms and lordships, wealth control passed down through the generations bloated into this millennium by the mining industry, a diamond is forever...
What progress has civilization really made other than to better mask and ensure a timelessness in myths? It was only in the last 100 years they were doing lobotomies in snake pits.
Civil-ization, it sounds like another word for torture.

Publius, when you graduate destitution finishing school, ideas such a cosmetic procedure have no meaning.

Dadnerd, I lost my comment to you yesterday, I was saying you had a close call there with the 14 year old. For all anyone knows, Cheaters could have been hiding behind the light post, videocams rolling.

Jacob Gittes said...

"We cannot change anything unless we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses. "
- Carl Jung

Nina: cosmetic procedures already have no meaning to me. I also find my "consort" to be beautiful and perfect the way she is... where her anxiety or desire to change her appearance comes from, I do not know. I do not know. The claim, though (to give details nobody probably wants) is that it will help with some skin issues that came about due to hormonal changes due to childbirth, etc.

The pattern I have noticed is that giving birth and children is something that modern Western women want, but that they want to avoid the signs of the process - they want to appear physically as pre-motherhood, while having the benefits of motherhood... of course, most or many children of the "middle soon-to-be desperate" class are foisted off on childcare and rigid school systems as soon as possible.

I welcome my graduation from destitution finishing school, Nina... I'm already on Desperation Row with my fellow espresso-drinking, Whole Foods shopping cohorts. We're just sitting in the Whole Foods or food co-op food court, waiting for the other shoe to drop, still talking about that cute mission-style house in the perfect neighborhood near the Waldorf School, and planning our brilliant futures as bureaucratic functionaries in the lower echelons of the corporate and bureaucratic elite.

And those of us who want to opt out are looked at with fear and loathing. Today, for instance, my own brother compared me to the 1-a-bombr, Ted, for not believing that the USA is the best darn country in the world, and for believing that a crisis is even possible. I'm a subversive in his eyes, and don't even know if he'd hesitate to report me to the future Stasi we are likely to have. But at least I know that, now. Can't trust my own brother!

nina said...

chickory: rousseau is the godfather of shaggin your own trail. to achieve in spite of and in the face of the "salon" or university or A list gallery.

You know your art history. It is true, Henri Rousseau was "untrained". Unschooled! Few know this and even more don't care or have any idea who he is and wouldn't believe it was possible if you showed them, "It must have been luck."
Yes, he must have been the scourge of the salons. Hahaha, well, he got the last laugh didn't he. How many know George Sand who ran the biggest salon of the day was a woman?
There would be no Maurice
Sendak frenzy had it not been for Rousseau opening the door.
Rousseau's continuing fame puts a lie to the obsession with ever-higher education and going into a lifetime of debt just to specialize - as conditioning would dictate.

nina said...

Oh, she's wierding out on her stretch marks, I see. They go away as fast as they came when you are moving your body with a little heavy work. That's why ladies in 3rd World countries carrying huge bags of wares and water containers on their heads never worry about them, they are natural and disappear. But they won't go away if someone's sitting around more often than our bodies were designed to do.

I hope everyone found a few minutes to read Charles Hugh Smith's essay on Devolution and 20 Predictions yesterday. As always, he puts prophetic language to what we are experiencing.

There are many good writers showing up lately, I don't expect the better ones to keep it up indefinitely. There comes a moment when the web shows itself to be no more meaningful than giving citizens coloring books and crayons to keep them occupied. And then, while you are riding on that thought train, you see how it makes any change impossible. Not only impossible, but increases the divide, creates a false sense of urgency and encourages vanity, besides it takes up hours and hours you could be doing something real, things that would make a difference in our lives.
Think about it.
There was a headline on the supermarket tabloids today that really did it for me ... "Celebrity so and so texting celebrity so and so nonstop". Think about that.

Anonymous said...

You guys do make a difference in my life. Through what you say, and do through art, and words, I am finding out piece by piece who I am--what makes me tick, where I stand--or if I even take a stand. There is just a connection that says I found a place, for now, where I belong--maybe where I am supposed to be--I'm looking forward to today and who knows about tomorrow--all things are temporary--I just feel welcome here without putting on my smile and walking around with a bunch of strangers with a cocktail in my hand--I just don't have the patience for that--I guess I like my world small and manageable--with as little bullshit as possible--so be it.

I like it here because I am not an art critic--the Mona Lisa to me just doesn't do anything--neither does most fancy art--the stuff you're supposed to be enamored with--so say the experts.

I just like what I like--what speaks to me--how cool is it to know the artist--the writer--that personal, albeit electronic connection--what your thoughts were when creating--to the extent that I know, and you know--to discover things together and share them without standing on our soap boxes--it's honest--and I like that.

My oh my, how we jumped on the "art all the time" and I felt an escape-ful joy for a while--then we seemed to want to go and check out the car crash noise again--maybe it's just in the balance--I don't know--please keep posting your art, and I'll keep telling you what pops into the noggin'--

Nina's makes me think--it expands me--I am wiser for having been here--

It goes beyond the art, or words--it's life--stretching, expanding--the roots trying to find their way through the cracks in the soil--trying to find the surface and the sunlight--it's so much more, put simply--maybe the manure is just part of the growth process--

I still have a job, I live in a house that is paid for--Our 2 10 year old vehicles are old, but running well--my parents are in decent health--as are we--We're not rich, but doing OK--one son is really coming into his own after Juli stirred her natural cauldron and came up with what was needed for him to get his body, and emotions in balance without going the pharma route, the other is 18 and disjointed right now wondering what his package deal is and burning the candle at both ends-in a hurry, and going nowhere-as most of us have done at one time or another
Juli and I are content, but bored at times even with all there is to do--
It's like last call in a bar: "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here"--
We've been together now for 21 years and having home schooled the boys and having the office in the house--well, we've been around each other a lot--

There's something I want to do--break free for a while--something to be passionate about but I just don't know what it is--or where--Juli feels the same--yet here we are, joined at the hip--for better or worse--Just kinda "stuck in Lodi again"--where from here--I just want something that I'm passionate about--yet not all-consuming as I have a tendency to go full bore with things and then just stop--see, I just learned something about myself I already knew--

Anonymous said...

There is no one else I want to be with because I would still be with the me that is writing this--damn guy follows me wherever I go---

I need the interaction but just can't find, or maybe am unwilling to look very hard for it--so, I go about my day and try to make folks laugh as I go through my errands and stuff--maybe a little flirting from her to there--can a 51 year old guy flirt?

There is the guitar--helps me go a bit slower--I'm not a "natural" by any means--I have to work at at, but I'm making music--someone else's, but you'd know what the song is if I played it--

Went out to get the dogs a groundhog (grass fed beef) the other day--got one at about 200 yards and brought it home--the Lab was King of the pride--his natural state although he missed the hunt--maybe he knows, maybe he doesn't--maybe he doesn't care--

Maybe just a mid-life crisis--or restless leg syndrome---maybe I should see my doctor and get high every day--

If I didn't know what I know about how the world runs, would I be any happier? I don't know, because I do know, and once you know, it changes you--just can't shake it--even with not reading the news sites--it's just in the air--palpable--it's that taste in your mouth and you don't have a toothbrush--wouldn't matter if you did--they spiked the toothpaste too--

Well, enough rambling for now-I had to split up the comment to post it-I look forward to your thoughts--

It seems to come back to why are we here--does anything we do make a difference or are we just deluding ourselves in different directions?

Maybe big pharma, or little pharma can help----I think not--not for me anyway--

Jj

Anonymous said...

"Can ya take me higher--to a place where blind men see"

Creed

Jj

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else think they were going to somehow be an exception to the rule--whatever rule that would be?

Is that the end of innocence/hope, or just life?

I want more--I stood in line all this time, and now they tell me the ride is changing--

Jj

Jacob Gittes said...

Can't we all be "exceptions to the rule" if we start to realize that "The Rules" aren't real, aren't set in stone, aren't required to be followed?

Has anyone here ever read "Shantyboat" by Harlan Hubbard?
He's a man who realized that the rules were bullshit more than 60 years ago, and proved it. An artist, a musician, a gentleman.

There's an old joke I got from William James, who got it from the era he lived in:

"Is life worth living?"
Answer: "It depends on the liver."

Context: the organ of the body referred to in the double entendre was thought to be very important to mental health back then. They were right.

brian said...

chicory,
love the depiction of the acting bird with multiple wing motions each as a unique design. yes yes yes yes yes!!!!!
Illuminated manuscripts--YES YES YES YES YES!!!!
Calligraphic influences,yes yes yes and yes!
Canned fonts....naaaah!

nina said...

Publius: He's a man who realized that the rules were bullshit more than 60 years ago, and proved it. An artist, a musician, a gentleman.

Thank you for this! Wiki does not show his work, but google images does. Harlan Hubbard

nina said...

Jj: Did anyone else think they were going to somehow be an exception to the rule--whatever rule that would be?
Is that the end of innocence/hope, or just life?
I want more--I stood in line all this time, and now they tell me the ride is changing--


As revelation is closing-in, all of NOW is the new Year Zero. Wonder no more if you thought it was just one big vanilla glide and you would sail through unscathed.

Charles Hugh Smith said...

Nina, I love that photo of the wheelbarrow and the split wood. It has layers upon layers and the placement is totally Zen.

Mahalo plenty (Hawaiian pidgen for thank you very much) for the link to "devolution" entry--more on that today.

As for great writers--you are one yourself. Big hug to you for saying so much in such unique ways.
Your fan, charles

Anonymous said...

"Unscathed" interesting choice of words--let me ponder that for a bit--

Then again, "the good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems"--Billy Joel

"It's a dog eat dog world Sammy, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear"
Norm/Cheers

Jj

nina said...

Dou itashimashite, Charles, but it is you who always delivers the goods. I actually missed Devolution the day it was published and discovered (whew) my error while visiting with the Trouts. So it is an extra-cool detail that you quoted Freeacre in today's More on Devolution. (Additional extra-cool synchronicity: It was you who led me to the Campfire.)
Tonight, I will show the President of the Logs your comment. He is subject to flattery and this insures a pleasant evening in the household - thus reinforcing kindness is key.

I am in sincere gratitude for all your labors and kindnesses.

Dadnerd said...

This may end up being a short story.

We have to go back a few years, working on an expansion to a house down in Fort Lauderdale. Actually the guy bought the property next to his house and built an entertainment dwelling, quite impressive actually. Had an indoor pool that was assembled in Italy and shipped to the US, and lots of other cool things, anyway...

Turns out the guys name is Michael Bienes. He is a key figure in this whole Bernard Madoff scandal of late. Here's a link...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/madoff/view/

At the time I was working for a contractor to faux finish the walls in that place. An Hungarian friend, who also worked for the same contractor, met with an artist, named Chris, and they came up with a technique to do the job. My other friend Gary and I were picked to assist in the project. So there we all were, the four of us, faux finishing this guys house or whatever you call that structure, unaware that he was part of a grand Ponzi scheme that would be a real record breaker years later.

The Hungarian let me live in a trailer he owned, rent free while I looked for a more permanent place to live. A few years went by in the meantime, it worked out for both of us, until one day he sold the place and I had to get out.

Gary was a simple kinda guy, a Cubs fan, and a man of few words. But always managed to see through things and understand the heart of the matter.

And there was Chris.

We never worked with Chris the artist before, but he was a great illustrator and was hired to make samples of the faux finish we were contracted to do.


So there we all were side by side dabbing away on the criminals walls, day after day. The Hungarian separated himself from us right off the bat, so instead of two teams of two, it was two teams of one vs three, silly Hungarian.

I had this idea about a children's book, and I wanted to name it the Lizard King. I ran into this crazy lizard over on the west coast along the beach. I was just sitting there minding my own business, and this lizard tried to attack me. He was something else, and came charging at me like he owned the place. I actually pulled back when he did that. And I watched him running around chasing the other lizards away, and I got this idea, not really serious, about a book featuring all these different personalities. And I told Chris about it and he made this wonderful illustration the next day, depicting the Lizard King. I think I'll scan it and post it.

....

Dadnerd said...

So Gary and Chris and I were sitting side by side, day after day, dabbing our lives away, and chatting about pretty much everything. Gary didn't say much but Chris was constantly whining about his girlfriend and I forgot what his problem was really. But each day I sort of encouraged him to let it all out, even though he just kept repeating the same story. He was young.

Gary probably wanted to kill me for letting him spout, but, what the hey, let the kid get it out of his system right? But it seemed he never really got it out of his system.

And I took advantage of the captive audience to convey what was on my mind at the time, and of course it was philosophical; all the while Gary yawned, but Chris became something of a disciple.

This was bad.

And one weekend my close companion Myungja, was preparing a once in a life time dish called, well I don't know what the proper spelling is in Korean. Sounds like Be Bim Bop. The bop is rice, and the dish is awesome. And it takes quite a while to prepare. So there she is down in Coral Gables making this dish, and Chris calls me. He's whining again about that girl, and I'm worried about where he's going with me. And I encouraged him to get into his loneliness and deal with it. And after a half hour, I caved in and said look, Myungja is coming over with this nice dish, why don't you come over and share it with us, which he jumped at instantly.

Myungja was mad at me for inviting someone else, as the dish was made for two, but it turned out okay, and we had fun.

The kid had issues and I didn't know how to help him. We all have issues, and we all need to deal with them. If he was looking for a father figure or something, it would have retarded his development, or so I thought at the time.

And later I found he was getting a bit annoying.

One day while dabbing, I pulled away from the trio to talk to someone I hadn't seen in a while, and Chris got all pissy with me, like I abandoned him. That was the last straw for me.

A few days earlier I had mentioned that someday we would all look back on the whole thing and laugh, and he said, "what, we are not going to continue communicating"? In the trades we are used to hundreds of people coming and going, and it was normal, but he was crushed at the idea it would be over when the job was finished.

He just refused to deal with that loneliness thing, and I wonder to this day if he got through it. And looking back maybe I was a bit harsh and hardcore. But the timeless question remains, can anyone help another? Or do we all have to travel the path alone and not lean on others as a crutch?

There is a difference in depending on others, vs mutually sharing and benefiting from them. So community is a beautiful and natural thing, where we all pool are various talents and skills. But dependency can get ugly. I think our modern life has taken a wrong turn.

A few years later Myungja died of cancer. And now poor Mr Bienes has to leave those multi million dollar dwellings and get a condo, such is life.

chickory said...

i enjoyed the piece on devolution very much and forwarded it to a few receptive friends. and i went back and read free acre's comment. i loved his number 7; i sure hope that his vision materializes and people find the fortitude to stand and claim their birthright which is to live an authentic life.

i agree with CHS's assessment of your writing capabilities, nina. its certainly a higher order of content and unusual and lyrical in its structure. it is a bit difficult too (for me) and thats good. the fact that you are also an accomplished painter came as no surprise as i found my way to your art site after reading some posts.

i think one of the quiet little revolutions in the face of this situation we find ourselves in is to engage in matters of substance such as writing or art; not passively allowing low material to wash over us in the way pop culture does. and the material is very low. banal.

thinking about our friend rousseau again, i am reminded of something thoreau said which was
"education takes a meandering river and turns it into a straight ditch" - in rousseau we see this manifested in a naive but highly original vision which informs on an intuitive level rather than literal.

brian: i have a copy of the illuminated manuscript called "the visconti hours" - which i find fascinating in the same way bosch is to me -its remains weirdly modern and relevant. i have enjoyed the way that difficult themes have been portrayed visually and the stylized animals that decorate the margins. i think you would like it. thanks for looking at my work and commenting on it.

Jj: im sure the locals have just that scenario in mind!

nina said...

chickory, have you see
Brian's work?

nina said...

Yes, I know I am hard to read, but that changes once you keep reading. Different is not an obstacle. As Rev. Jerimian Wright said "Its not deficient, its just different."

I am very fortunate to have bright people like yourself comment here, I don't have to make any adjustments in the thought process. This puts all of us on a positive wave length. A positive wave length in sharing material of substance was the original raison d'etre for the internet. It was the altruistic ideal among scholars and designers, the BBS era of typehouses and industrial designers, mainly Steven Jobs. And just like any altruistic ideal, its been co-opted into oblivion. If we want things truly real, want them with altruistic motive at the root and in practice, we're on our own now.

Dadnerd said...

Speaking of synchronicity, it wasn't two days ago on this very blog that I typed the name Michael Jackson, the only time in my life that I did that. Strangely I did sort of have a run in with him a few years back. A big house I worked in, and where I met my wife, was the host of Michael and his entourage. Everyone working there had to sign an agreement not to tell anyone he was staying there, which was for a few months.
Apparently all the allegations and accusations about him were true, according to the people working there. He was a odd one that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

Nina Said: "If we want things truly real, want them with altruistic motive at the root and in practice, we're on our own now".

I don't think that's anything new for most of us that play at Nina's--almost like we are practicing for something--well, maybe not practicing but living it--because we want to--no shocks coming down that road and perhaps that is one less thing to deal with-because we have dealt with it on this level-On our own now, is both a realization, and a freeing way of being--I doubt any of us will be standing in a government cheese line any time soon--it's in the knowing, and I don't mean that in a doomsday way--it is a chosen way of being--a choice we made/make--

dadnerd: no wonder your co-worker always bitched about the girlfriend--he's a reverser--he was bitching about himself--I see that in sociopaths I have come across--they tend to tell you that other people are doing exactly what they are doing--they mirror their behavior through their "stories" and actions but always blame others, or put them down when they are actually talking about themselves-- it's always someone else doing it---I hope the girlfriend ran as far and fast as she could--always two (or more) sides to a story.

There are also real artists and the ones who have the "tortured artist" syndrome--it's a great excuse (in their minds) to be alcoholics, leach off people, use people,sit around sullen and withdrawn--it's "artsy"...you get the picture--lazy, drunk people bore me--show me something that comes from creativity--a lot of musicians are the same--instead of being in awe and gracious that they have this gift--either natural, or developed through hard work, they whine about not being accepted--misunderstood--I coulda' been a contender--people don't see my brilliance--I should have been sipping cocktails in the Hamptons--
run screaming for the nearest exit---

I like a little humility mixed in with the brilliance--a respect for the art and ability---Tolle has a great comment about artists and inventors--most of their truly great work came through moments of no-mind--when they weren't
"thinking" about what they were doing--but letting themselves feel it through the spirit--the mind can only go so far--it's limited--allowing the spirit to shine is when the real art or writing, or music comes out--

Nuff for now--

Jj

Zoner said...

Nina, you just mentioned the most elusive - and magical - aspect of the "art" that I attempt to dabble in. Allowing all that brain stuff to shut off and channeling whatever comes in and takes over is simply magic, and far too infrequent I'm afraid.

I envy painters and writers sometimes. Being a musician, it seems pointless to try and be fully creative as a singular entity, and that "channeled" participation is tough to nail down. That leaves having to work with other musicians to try and fully realize a piece of music. It is akin to marrying several people at once, and makes me crazy trying to wade through the personal entanglement to get to the creative space.

Why can't we all just get along?

Z

Zoner said...

Sorry, Jj mentioned.......

word verification: prolog

Z

Dadnerd said...

Jj:

he's a reverser--he was bitching about himself-


Never thought of it that way but I believe you are right. I tried to throw everything back on him, but it just wouldn't stick.

Thanks for the observation, I knew there was some insane reason why I typed that tome. :>)

Anonymous said...

Z: I have an SRV CD and on it he says that he doesn't read music--. He was saying that if he thinks about the music it doesn't work--he has to let the thinking go and just let the music go wherever it goes, never worry about where he is on the neck or if he's doing it "right"

Me on the other hand, I have to have the chords and lyrics right in front of me or I'm lost--People ask me to jam to which I respond--"I don't jam"--just doesn't work that way for me. My younger son the guitarist (16) looks at the chords and to him it's chinese--he plays by tabs--which are chinese to me--but we both love a great guitarist regardless of genre', etc.

I love to sing--can make my voice sound like whoever sang the song originally if I'm listening to them on an MP3 with an ear bud--or just with the music playing--if I try to play and sing, the guitar sounds fine, but my voice stays monotone--go figure--if I chewed gum at the same time, I would probably fall of the stool

Guess I'll just have to rely on my good looks--lol

On another note (lol)--the people who amaze me are the producers or the person who has the strings glide in a for a few seconds, maybe a little horn here or there--subtle, then in your face--never too much--not an enviable job I suppose producing an album--all those ego's--but the really good ones have plenty of work--to hear what has not been heard and put it together in a way that makes it sound like it could not have been done any other way---like a great artist--never more than is needed---always in balance--with a few surprises--I love headphones to pick up all the subtleties-

Jj